Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Apparent Density, Bulk Density, Concentration?

  1. #1
    surrisri_bulk-online Guest

    Question Apparent Density

    Dear all,

    What is relation between Apparent Density and Bulk Density.My View is that Both are Same.Please advice me if i am not correct.

    Thanking you

    Surri

  2. #2
    Teus Tuinenburg

    Professional Experience 50 Years / 11 Month Teus Tuinenburg has 50 Years and 11 Month professional experience

    Discussions 1817 Teus Tuinenburg acceded to 1817 discussions, Articles 10 Teus Tuinenburg wrote 10 articles, Publications 0 Teus Tuinenburg Tuinenburg released 0 publications

    Searching Falsifications in my perception of pneumatic conveying

    Know-How Conveying (1379) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 1379 times, Pneumatic Conveying (1182) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 1182 times, Pneumatic (48) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 48 times

    dear sir,

    If you type " apparent density" in the google search machine, you will find quit a few sites, stating the definition.

    Indeed, apparent density and bulkdensity should be the same.

    Although I could think of another type of apparent density.

    The density of a material submerged in a fluid has apparently a lower density than not submerged.

    best regards
    Teus

  3. #3
    Lawrence K. Nordell

    Lawrence K. Nordell

    President and CEO

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc. [eDir]

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc.

    Professional Experience 55 Years / 11 Month Lawrence K. Nordell has 55 Years and 11 Month professional experience

    Discussions 2532 Lawrence K. Nordell acceded to 2532 discussions, Articles 0 Lawrence K. Nordell wrote 0 articles, Publications 0 Lawrence K. Nordell Nordell released 0 publications

    Searching nothing specified

    Know-How Design (1377) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 1377 times, Pipe Conveyor (212) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 212 times, Bins (93) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 93 times

    I venture out on the limb to say: There is no universal "apparent" or "bulk" density standard that classifies many of the relavant factors into a common test procedure and which agrees on a common identification.

    The apparent density can be altered by handling and test procedures.

    Often academic and standards (ASTM, et al) literature refers to "apparent" density when describing their research.

    A summary of the minimum factors worth consideration:

    1. particle size distribution incl: coarse, coarse and fines, fines
    2. particle shapes - degree of surface area to classified size
    3. particle structure - agglomeration of specific shapes during storage or testing
    4. inherent moisture
    5. surface moisture
    6. particle to particle attraction and repulsion
    7. ph influence - zeta potential
    8. particle packing action during density tests - standardized compaction pressure and methods
    9. segregation of particles during handling and testing
    10. coordination number theorectically achievable verses actual
    as measured by gas absorbtion
    11. degree of compaction during tests - noting all solids compact when in a pile or storage vessel or subjected to a above ambient pressure activity
    12. degree of vibration to ideally align or consolidate particle groups
    13 time during testing for: moisture, strength, pressure and elasto-plastic relaxation of particle to particle interactions
    14. yield locii influence on density - J & J, Schultz, others
    15. tapping or vibration testing vs volume change of finer particle groups as has been noted in earlier forum responses.

    I am sure Mr. Lynn Bates and others who contribute to the forum, have more to say.

    Note: Jenike & Johanson test procedures, that measure apparent shear strength, suffer from human variances during their simple measurements as do other soil mechanics testing.

    In summary, the subject of "apparent" or "bulk" density is very complex.


    .
    Lawrence Nordell
    Conveyor Dynamics, Inc.

    website, email & phone contacts:
    www.conveyor-dynamics.com
    nordell@conveyor-dynamics.com
    phone: USA 360-671-2200
    fax: USA 360-671-8450

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 03
    Posts
    1,641
    "What is relation between Apparent Density and Bulk Density"

    But what is the material? If it is a bulk solid then the material has a Bulk Density measured in mass per unit volume (typically kg/m3, te/m3 etc). You measure it by finding the mass that is contained in a known volume.

    But that only applies to the sample you measured. If you used a different sample you may get a different bulk density.

    Depending on the size distribution you may get different results according to the size of container you use, so its important to use a container suitably sized according to the lumps the bulk solid contains. I used to like using a 1ft3 container, it was big enough for most lumpy materials I came across yet not too big to manhandle onto a scale!

    At the end of the day the bulk density is what you measured from the sample you were provided with and the container you used.

  5. #5
    Lawrence K. Nordell

    Lawrence K. Nordell

    President and CEO

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc. [eDir]

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc.

    Professional Experience 55 Years / 11 Month Lawrence K. Nordell has 55 Years and 11 Month professional experience

    Discussions 2532 Lawrence K. Nordell acceded to 2532 discussions, Articles 0 Lawrence K. Nordell wrote 0 articles, Publications 0 Lawrence K. Nordell Nordell released 0 publications

    Searching nothing specified

    Know-How Design (1377) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 1377 times, Pipe Conveyor (212) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 212 times, Bins (93) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 93 times

    Good point on sample bias or variance.

    Also, besides the preparation, the shape of the container biases the result such as loading a cylinder versus box, etc.

    Vibration from the application can bias the result, such as the container mounting in a vibration zone al la trains.....

    So, the container shape and environment will vary the result as was suggested on container size.

    The ore or granular material elastic constants by size and shape will have an effect.

    How the container is loaded ,as has been discussed in the forum, with the preference for higher density below the filling spout and coarse particles migrating to the outer field.
    Lawrence Nordell
    Conveyor Dynamics, Inc.

    website, email & phone contacts:
    www.conveyor-dynamics.com
    nordell@conveyor-dynamics.com
    phone: USA 360-671-2200
    fax: USA 360-671-8450

  6. #6
    surrisri_bulk-online Guest

    Thanks Mr.noedell and Mr.Designer

    I got some idea about Apparent Density.
    But in google search ( i had searched in google with Mr.Teus Tuinenburg advice) i got the result that both bulk density and Apparent density are same.I should want to calculate apparent density for alluminium powder.

    Please reply in one line that both are same or not.

    Surri

  7. #7
    Lawrence K. Nordell

    Lawrence K. Nordell

    President and CEO

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc. [eDir]

    Conveyor Dynamics Inc.

    Professional Experience 55 Years / 11 Month Lawrence K. Nordell has 55 Years and 11 Month professional experience

    Discussions 2532 Lawrence K. Nordell acceded to 2532 discussions, Articles 0 Lawrence K. Nordell wrote 0 articles, Publications 0 Lawrence K. Nordell Nordell released 0 publications

    Searching nothing specified

    Know-How Design (1377) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 1377 times, Pipe Conveyor (212) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 212 times, Bins (93) Lawrence K. Nordell used this tag 93 times

    For most applications, apparent or bulk density are technically the same.

    However, most means of obtaining the apparent or bulk density will not deliver the appropriate value unless the many qualifying conditions are considered.

    So, what is the ______________ density when many factors are omitted or the measurement is flawed?
    Lawrence Nordell
    Conveyor Dynamics, Inc.

    website, email & phone contacts:
    www.conveyor-dynamics.com
    nordell@conveyor-dynamics.com
    phone: USA 360-671-2200
    fax: USA 360-671-8450

  8. #8
    surrisri_bulk-online Guest

    Thanks to Mr.Nordell

    Dear sir,

    Thaking you for your Reply

    Surri

  9. #9
    surrisri_bulk-online Guest

    Density and Concentration

    Dear all,

    Did you are know that the unit for density and concentration is same.But tell me that
    1.what is the mean by Density?
    2.What is mean by Concentration?
    3. What is the differencr between Density and Concentration?

    Advance Thanks to all you

    Surri

  10. #10
    Teus Tuinenburg

    Professional Experience 50 Years / 11 Month Teus Tuinenburg has 50 Years and 11 Month professional experience

    Discussions 1817 Teus Tuinenburg acceded to 1817 discussions, Articles 10 Teus Tuinenburg wrote 10 articles, Publications 0 Teus Tuinenburg Tuinenburg released 0 publications

    Searching Falsifications in my perception of pneumatic conveying

    Know-How Conveying (1379) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 1379 times, Pneumatic Conveying (1182) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 1182 times, Pneumatic (48) Teus Tuinenburg used this tag 48 times

    Dear Surri

    Density = mass per unit of volume (kg/m3) (of 1 material)

    bulk-density = mass per unit of volume, whereby voids are included. in the volume (kg/m3)

    additional conditions to the figure of density have to be given, f.i. settled, consolidated, fluidized, poured, etc.

    material-density = mass per unit of volume, whereby voids are excluded. from the volume (kg/m3)

    For instance Alumina :

    bulk-density = 1220 kg/m3

    material-density = 3400 kg/m3

    particle size = 90 micron median

    Concentration is part or percentage of one material, mix with another material.

    Normally this ratio is based on volume or mass and in principle dimensionless.

    Example : m3 material 1 / m3 material 2

    kg material 1 / kg material 2

    Another example is : x kg of material 1 / y m3 of material 2

    The name of a presented figure is not really important, as long as the physical and mathematical description is also clearly stated.
    In case someone presents you with a figure and the definition is not clear, just ask for the explanation.

    Influences on the various densities is already mentioned in the previous posts

    success
    Teus

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bulk Density
    By shri_12p in forum Trough Belt Conveying
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10th June 2010, 15:26
  2. Bulk Density
    By a.sabeer in forum Pneumatic Conveying
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 14th May 2009, 8:08
  3. Bulk Density
    By Sinaga in forum Trough Belt Conveying
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21st April 2008, 8:34
  4. Increasing Apparent Density of Bulk Powder
    By thomas_c in forum Silos, Hoppers, Bins & Domes
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 27th June 2007, 13:16
  5. Segregation, Plastic Pellets, Apparent Bulk Density
    By sgraley in forum Ask Lyn Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 25th January 2007, 17:30

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO