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saulosousa
17th July 2007, 22:50
Hi,

I tried to calculate the power of a pipe conveyor using the calculators of Ckit website (http://www.ckit.co.za/secure/conveyor/pipe/power_calcs/pipe_conv_pow_calc.html) and I'm having doubts about the angles and the length of the sections. Can you help to use the right measures?

The draw (ACAD 2000) of the conveyor with the plan and elevation views are attached with the message.

If is possible, send me the input values used in your calculus.

Thank you and I'm waiting a feedback.

Saulo Sousa
ECM SA - Industrial Projects

Frans van der Zee
19th July 2007, 9:53
Dear Sir,

Depending on the required capacity, the EBS Conveyor could eb an alternative for your project.
It is able to make horizontal bend with 8 of 16 meter radius for the EBS 800 and EBS1400.
Max. capacity is abou 500 Ton/hour.

You can find more informatrion on:
www.enclosedbulk.com

best regards
Frans van der Zee
Enclosed Bulk Systems b.v.

zhangyue294
21st July 2007, 3:47
I WROTED A HANDBOOK OF NEW TYPE PIPE CONVEYOR,INWHICH
INCLUD PIPE CONVEYOR CALCULATIONS, PUBLISHED BY CEMERICAL PRESS IN BEIJING, OR SEND MESSAGE TO ME.

I G Mulani
21st July 2007, 20:00
Dear Mr. Saulo Sousa,

Formulae / method to calculate power required for pipe conveyor is fairly known. The crux of the point is the choosing of right input values in calculations, so that the calculation matches to the end result.

Regards,
Ishwar G Mulani.
Author of Book : Engineering Science and Application Design for Belt Conveyors.
Author of Book : Belt Feeder Design and Hopper Bin Silo
Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.
Email : parimul@pn2.vsnl.net.in
Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25871916

nordell
21st July 2007, 21:16
I pity the client.

Paul Holt
1st August 2007, 15:57
Sirs

I pity the client too, only persons experienced in their respective field pipe conveyor or other should be doing such calculations for an actual project.

Paul Holt
Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd.

designer
1st August 2007, 17:34
And when it all goes wrong they'll be back here asking for free help to put it right.

Paul Holt
1st August 2007, 17:39
Yes but there is less chance it going wrong if you go to the experts.

Paul Holt
Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd.

A.Banerjee
3rd September 2007, 11:35
No question of sympathy. We can follow this method as given below.

N1 =0.06( f.w.v. (L+Lo)/367 + (F1+F2+F3)/367)).. KW

N2= fQ ( L+Lo)/367 .. KW

N3= HQ/367 .. KW

Motor power = (N1+N2+N3)/367/ drive effcy. ... KW

F1= 2D/75 X La .f .. Kg
F2= (0.2D+ 25).n ... Kg
F3= (Tc+ Tr).3.14/180.A.Fc .. Kg
Where,
w= weight of belt & rotating parts , kg/m
f= 0.03
v= belt speed m/min
Q= capacity in t/hr
H=Lift, M
A= bend angle,deg
Tc/Tr= Tension in carrying/return in curved area, kg
Fc= Corrected friction faction factor

Please try with this.
Regards.
A.Banerjee

arsingh
12th September 2007, 11:17
pipe conveyor design is not as simple as belt conveyor design . Belt rigidity plays very important role while calculating conveyor power. Belt rigidity is based on composition of rubber compound and manufacturing process and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.
I have seen in some cases even belt manufacturer does not know belt rigidity and conveyor is installed and finally it was found power is not sufficient to run the conveyor
A R SINGH

A.Banerjee
12th September 2007, 11:38
Dear Mr. Singh,
How it is helping us.
Regards.
A.Banerjee

A.Banerjee
12th September 2007, 12:47
Dear Mr. Singh,
I know that you were involved in the erection of 3.2 km pipe conveyor in Birla copper along with Mr. Phill. Can you not high light the effect of belt rigidity in conveyor power & how to calculate the same.
Regards.
A.Banerjee

nordell
12th September 2007, 22:00
Dear Mr. Banerjee,


As Background & For the Record ------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Singh, then VP engineering for Naveen Ltd., and I worked together on Birla Copper. Phil happened to be in the same room.

CDI worked with Bridgestone to develop the rigidity influence on power. A seven layer composite rubber, fabric and steel cord belt model was developed.

A year of finite element work and subsequent constitutive math modeling resulted in the 7 layer pipe belt model. This model does produce forming forces and pressure on all six rolls with interface drag. These methods continue to be improved.

Data on ten pipe conveyors, comprehensive field instrumentation of Barber's Point in Hawaii, and laboratory forming load cell readings were conducted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CDI was awarded the contract (signed paper) to do engineering on Birla Copper by Babcock Material Handling (BMH), South Africa for which Phil also worked. Babcock was contracted by Naveen Ltd.

Wits University in South Africa was contracted to build a bending jig to test the Taeryuk South Korean steel cord belt for its physical properties for the Birla Copper. This was instigated by me. Phil and Prof. Gabriel Lodewijks (then an employee of CDI) were asked to oversee Taeryuk belt construction and Wits testing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calculation of bending rigidity is extremely complex. Many differential equations must be simultaneously solved. A numerical integration technique must be invoked together with the rubber, fabric and steel cord rheology interactions and viscoelastic behavior. The rigidity must be first decomposed and measured in a laboratory for the substrata components such as fabric layers, where they are located, and their orthogonal properties.

Most, if not all pipe conveyor designers, do not apply this approach due to the degree of complexity. They rely on empirical measurements provided by belt manufacturers. From this data, tension and power are derived from intellectual proprietary methods.

Advancements in lower belt tensions and power will be a slow evolutionary path. However, there is hope and optimism that better theoretical methods will be forthcoming soon that can unleash the pipe conveyor’s true potential.

A.Banerjee
13th September 2007, 5:47
Respected Mr. Nordell,

Your reply is extremly good. But please update myself giving some information.
Best regards.

A.Banerjee
M.N.Dastur & co. Pvt. Ltd.
Calcutta
West Bengal
INDIA

Phil Staples
12th October 2007, 18:43
Hi,

It is with a concern for an abusive comment that I post this response.

The thread was started with a comment on the Ckit Wed Site asking for clarification.

As we are all aware to date there are no real standards on Pipe Conveyor design relating to power and belt selection.

We at Ckit working with FFE India are building a number of large Pipe Conveyors where prior to specifying the belt construction we undertake the test to which Mr Nordell refers.

Our first test was on the Birla Copper project performed at a S African University with Prof Lodewijks undertaking the analysis of the results.

That test proved very successful and a new far more sophisticated test rig is now available.

Regarding the Birla Pipe Conveyor Mr Nordell is correct that I was in the room when he made his presentation on the design of the conveyor, he dose however neglect to advise that I sold the concept of the first 90 deg horizontal curve on this conveyor and was, with Mr Singh present for the commissioning and have been back to the site many times learning about the operation and advising on improvements.

Returning to the thread I advise that this BASIC design is to assist in getting started, I have spent the last 12 years trying to remove the stigma associated with poorly designed pipe conveyors hoping that because of its advantages in environmentally sensitive areas it will become the norm.

I would suggest that more time be spent on developing standards for this type of conveyor.

In the mean time I will try to make my BASIC model easier to understand.

Thanks
Phil Staples

nordell
12th October 2007, 22:47
Dear Phil,

Yes, Gabriel did oversee the test work, at Wits, as an employee of Conveyor Dynamics, Inc. (CDI). The need for such a test and the nature of the rig design was requested by me, the then and now a principle of CDI.

The test work was requested, by me, to evaluate the use of a questionable belt supplier.

So often the truth is hidden in these delightful exchanges.

nordell
12th October 2007, 22:59
Dear Phil,

As my memory improves with the second glass of wine, I do recall that I asked you a question. Would you like to commission Birla Copper as a representative of CDI, since I could not also maintain the schedule of the Palabora project which we had partnered on.

CDI was contracted to do the commissioning.

wallycutler
23rd November 2011, 22:22
I WROTED A HANDBOOK OF NEW TYPE PIPE CONVEYOR,INWHICH
INCLUD PIPE CONVEYOR CALCULATIONS, PUBLISHED BY CEMERICAL PRESS IN BEIJING, OR SEND MESSAGE TO ME.

Please send a copy to me.
wally.cutler@gmail.com

guddu
27th November 2011, 3:19
I WROTED A HANDBOOK OF NEW TYPE PIPE CONVEYOR,INWHICH
INCLUD PIPE CONVEYOR CALCULATIONS, PUBLISHED BY CEMERICAL PRESS IN BEIJING, OR SEND MESSAGE TO ME.

Dear sir

Can you send me the the published book , enlighten by you on my mail id , chaubey.07@gmail.com

Thanks in anticipation